The Gaming Den

This is a pretty basic question. Say that I have a level 1 character and I want to optimize for the highest base stats possible (it doesn't matter if I'm not as effective of a character, I just want high Strength/Dexterity/Constitution/etc).

What is the most efficient way, in and out of Tome, for me to do this?

... I'm also kinda interested in seeing how Strength is the easiest attribute to boost...

Standard 3.5:

For simplicity, I'm going to say you want to make a not shitty character, some I'm not going to go over +1 LA, and mostly try to stay at zero.

Strength: You are a Feral Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale. You have some Racial HD, and +1 LA which you might be able to buy off.

You also have a +12 racial Str bonus, and are large. You also have fast healing and improved grab. Go you.

Now you are large, so take a couple levels in Barbarian, Grab extra Rage, and then take levels in War Hulk which gives no BAB, but +2 Str each level.

By level 16 you have a Str, assuming PB an 18 of:

18 PB +12 Racial +4 Levels +6 enhancement +20 War Hulk +4 Rage =54.

You also have improved Grabble, and you are pretty durable, so your strategy in life is to take Grapple feats, and than punch people into your grapple, and kill them.

Dex Honestly, I don't know what an all Dex character even does. But you are an Elf, and you do all the normal stuff, and you end up with a stat of:

18PB +2 Racial +5 Levels + 5 Tome +6 enhancement =36 at level 20

Con: You are some kind of dragonfire Adept or other breath weapon user, so you are a Mongrelfolk Dragonborn for +6 racial. You do the normal stuff.

Int: If you can buyoff +1 LA, Phrenic is good, otherwise, you are a Dragonborn Fire Elf, you have a +2 Racial, and you end with 36, unless you do some Age stuff.

Wisdom, you are an Anthropomorphic Bat for +6 racial. You are a Druid, and later, when you are level whatever, you are an Ancient Anthropomorphic Bat for +6 racial and +3 Age. Yay you.

Cha, you are Spellscale, Star Elf, or Mind Hellborn or whatever it's called. They all have Con penalties, because you know, Cha is so awesome a stat that you need to have a Con penalty yo make up for it. Then you further stack Magic Blooded. You now have a +4 racial for your Sorcerer or whatever. You end with a 38 + Age stuff.

Tome:

Items cancel out, all that matters are Races and the feats that arbitrarily give you +16 Str and +6 Con if you take them both. Obviously Str gets to be +9 modifier over any other stat at +0 LA thanks to orc and the feat, depending on how obscure you want to get racially (IE anthro bats or Dragonborn Mongrelfolk in Tome games.)

Actually, you can get +6 racial to Dex if you are a muckdweller (Serpent Kingdoms) or jermlaine (MM2).

You're also Tiny, which means that if you take ranks in Hide you're pretty much invisible.

Jermlaine works for maxing out Wis as well, as it also gives a +6 Wis bonus, but anthro bat is definitely better.

And you could be a lesser aasimar or tiefling for maxing out Cha and Int, respectively, but they provide the same relevant stat totals as what Kaelik suggested (although their net racial ability mods are slightly better).

Besides that, Kaelik pretty much covered everything.

Darth Rabbitt wrote:Actually, you can get +6 racial to Dex if you are a muckdweller (Serpent Kingdoms) or jermlaine (MM2).

I have no idea what Muckdwellers are, but Jermlaine have LA and racial HD right, thus defeating the purpose of "good character" Except possibly for the Dex. But I don't even know how you have maxed Dex and be a good character except by flask roguing.

Oh, yes. I forgot to mention that I was looking for a character who performed decently at all levels... and didn't have obnoxious LA or RHD.

Thank you Kaelik. And you too Rabbitt... gonna look up jermlaines now.

Kaelik wrote:

Darth Rabbitt wrote:Actually, you can get +6 racial to Dex if you are a muckdweller (Serpent Kingdoms) or jermlaine (MM2).

I have no idea what Muckdwellers are, but Jermlaine have LA and racial HD right, thus defeating the purpose of "good character" Except possibly for the Dex. But I don't even know how you have maxed Dex and be a good character except by flask roguing.

Muckdwellers are Tiny LA+0 1/4 HD (so it's dropped, as per the Monster Manual) reptilian monstrous humanoids.

Notable for being one of the playable Tiny races, one of the playable (and by playable, I mean LA +0) monstrous humanoid races, having one of the highest natural armor bonuses of any LA +0 race (+3) which basically means that you have the highest AC of any character of your ECL if you give a damn, and finally they have an extraordinary Squirt blinding attack with a Dex-based save DC.

And no, Jermlaine are also LA+0 and have 1/4 HD.

But I agree with you that all a maxed out Dex character doesn't have too many options.

Kaelik wrote:Int: If you can buyoff +1 LA, Phrenic is good, otherwise, you are a Dragonborn Fire Elf, you have a +2 Racial, and you end with 36, unless you do some Age stuff.

Why get dragon jizz all over your character sheet when you can just be a Gray Elf?

LR wrote:

Kaelik wrote:Int: If you can buyoff +1 LA, Phrenic is good, otherwise, you are a Dragonborn Fire Elf, you have a +2 Racial, and you end with 36, unless you do some Age stuff.

Why get dragon jizz all over your character sheet when you can just be a Gray Elf?

Because This way you get no Con penalty. Also you can fly or have Darkvision.

I like the Dragonborn Water Orc, with +4 STR, -2 DEX, +4 CON, -2 INT, -2 WIS, -2 CHA and no LA.

mean_liar wrote:I like the Dragonborn Water Orc, with +4 STR, -2 DEX, +4 CON, -2 INT, -2 WIS, -2 CHA and no LA.

Of course, Dragonborn is an improvement on lots of things. Better DFAs, Better Wizards, Better Fighters. But since the claim was highest Stat, and Dragonborn Water Orcs don't have the highest for LA +0, and Str is greatly benefited by being Large, which requires LA anyway, so you might as well have a +12 racial bonus, fast healing, and improved Grab.

The way to maximize Strength is to be a Lesser Aasimar Artificer with a Strength of 8. Or whatever, becuse it doesn't fucking matter. Now polymorph yourself into something stupid like a Titan and then cast giant size on top of that. Since you get what are essentially the maximum size bonuses twice, this is bigger than any "legitimate" strength you could achieve. 75 or more before you even look at a belt of strength. And you can pull this shit off at about level 10.

-Username17

Am I missing some secret about Aasimar in all this debate about how to get STR up?

Spike wrote:Am I missing some secret about Aasimar in all this debate about how to get STR up?

Various forms of transformation only allow you to transform you into an Outsider if you are already an Outsider. The rules for form changing are very confusing, since WotC was about half way through a full system errata overwrite of the entire submechanic when they through up their hands and said "Fuck it, we're making 4 now, do what you like."

-Username17

FrankTrollman wrote:The way to maximize Strength is to be a Lesser Aasimar Artificer with a Strength of 8. Or whatever, becuse it doesn't fucking matter. Now polymorph yourself into something stupid like a Titan and then cast giant size on top of that. Since you get what are essentially the maximum size bonuses twice, this is bigger than any "legitimate" strength you could achieve. 75 or more before you even look at a belt of strength. And you can pull this shit off at about level 10.

-Username17

Yeah, I wasn't counting Polymorph or spells like Giant Size, because fuck it, that's the bestway to get high Dex, Con, and Str, but it also means you have to be some spellcasting class (or a fucking Artificer, so fuck you) and that sort of defeats the purpose, because even with your Str 82, you are still better off just casting spells.

Is there a reason that WotC hated charisma so hard? Basically nothing gets it, and anything that does is crippled.

fectin wrote:Is there a reason that WotC hated charisma so hard? Basically nothing gets it, and anything that does is crippled.

Yeah, the whole Cha = Con thing blows my mind.

It's like, Cha is the shittiest, Con is the best, so let's make fucking Dwarves and Spellscales. That makes sense.